This is a fascinating topic even though I don't understand it very well, and apparently scientists don't understand it very well either. The two aspects of time that I find interesting are that time seems to be unidirectional, and that time will disappear.
There are many uses of the word "time" in the scriptures, but those uses of the word "time" are in a different context. I searched the online scriptures at lds.org for phrases containing the word "time" in the context of earthly time and only found two scriptures.
Or have angels ceased to appear unto the children of men? Or has he withheld the power of the Holy Ghost from them? Or will he, so long as time shall last, or the earth shall stand, or there shall be one man upon the face thereof to be saved? (Book of Mormon, Moroni 7:36)That verse tells us that God will not withhold the Holy Ghost from the children of men as long as time shall last, implying that time will come to an end after the Savior has finished his work in redeeming the children of men. Time is a measure of the sequence of events that comprise mortality. Mortality is a temporary existence. People, animals, and plants come into existence and then disappear. Events pertaining to the earth, such as earthquakes and storms, occur and then cease. But in the domain of God all things are eternal. There is no end to eternal things. There is no time in eternity.
Another verse from Revelation declares that time will cease when the Redemption is finished.
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: (Revelation 10:6)John saw an angel come down from heaven. The angel declared "by him that liveth for ever and ever" that time would cease, referring to the eventual completion of the Lord's work when all things will become eternal.
I think the scriptures give a strong implication that time is unidirectional, always going forward. The scriptures have a strong focus on repentance, that we must change our behavior to become more in harmony with God's will. The context is always that we must repent, and then in the future become more like Christ. There is no implication that as we repent we can go back in time and relive our past.
Some scientists say backwards travel is impossible because it would violate the principle of causality and, in addition, would require unimaginable amounts of energy. This scientific view of negative time-travel being impossible is in agreement with the scriptural view of time. Other scientists, though, say that backwards travel is theoretically possible but is not practical.
Concerning the disappearance of time, as I pointed out in my previous posts, we believe that when this world is recreated as an immortal world via the Atonement of Jesus Christ, time will cease, for in eternity there is no time. Because some scientists speculate there is no time, there is a form of a parallel between the religious and scientific views, although the religious view of no time pertains to an immortal world and the scientific view of no time pertains to a mortal world.
If science does discover how to travel in time, since from the scientific viewpoint time is a dimension, it will be interesting to see if humans in that distant future are able to travel bidirectionally or just unidirectionally.
I disagree that God is timeless. I think he experiences time (though possibly in a different way than we do). This seems to be indicated by the following scriptures:
ReplyDeleteD&C 130:4
Abraham 3:4-9
Abraham 5:13
This last verse seems to indicate that the term "time" may be equivocal. It may refer to "Adam's reckoning", or our mortal experience of time, which may be subjectively different from God's experience of time. However, I think there are serious problems with the idea of a timeless God who is embodied and acts in meaningful ways.
Hi grasshopper,
ReplyDeleteYou've brought out a good point and posted links to additional scriptures about time. Thanks for posting them.
I'm using the word "time" as the world thinks of time, or as given by Abraham 5:13, "Adam's reckoning".
We often think of time in terms of rotation of the earth about its axis or about the sun, but those are misunderstandings of time. Time has nothing to do, I believe, with the rotation of bodies. We can, for convenience, express time in terms of such rotations, but time itself exists independently of the rotations. In fact, measurements of time via rotations of the earth are inaccurate. Scientists have developed atomic clocks that have significantly greater accuracies. We divide time into fractions of seconds, seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, generations, millenia, etc., but those arbitrary units are only for convenience in thinking about time. They do not define time.
I think of time as a condition of mortality in which plants, animals, people, and events come into existence and later cease to exist. A tree, for example, begins its life as a sprout. Later on, the tree, now large and weathered, dies. For convenience we say the tree lived xx years. In actuality, the tree lived from its beginning to its end.
We believe that God established a planet, called Kolob in the Book of Abraham, to govern the Cosmos. In verses 8 and 9 of Abraham 3, the Lord said that if two planets exist in which one has a longer reckoning of time than the other, there will be a third planet with a still longer reckoning of time, and so on, until we come to the time of Kolob which is after the reckoning of God's time. Notice that God just described a series that doesn't converge. Since the Lord has created an infinite number of worlds inhabited by his children, that series, an infinite series, tells us that God's reckoning of time is infinite. That is, God's domain has no time as we think of time.
It is convenient to think of time in the mortal world, because mortality does have beginnings and endings. But, to talk about time in God's domain has little value, because immortality has no beginnings and endings.
What does it mean that God's reckoning of time is infinite? I don't really know, since my mind can't grasp infinity very well. The best I can do is to think of God being able to see from the beginning of our time to the end of our time. In God's perfect world, there are no beginnings, no deaths, no endings. Of course, His creations have beginnings, deaths, and endings.
It is true that in Abraham 3, the Lord talked about revolutions of Kolob and stated that one day in the Lord is 1000 years of our time, but, as I stated above, I believe those units are defined for convenience in talking about time. Those units do not define time, whether it be the Lord's time or our time.
Grasshopper, you spoke of "serious problems with the idea of a timeless God who is embodied and acts in meaningful ways." If you would be willing to explain your thoughts about those problems, I would appreciate it. I would like to understand your viewpoint.
In my comments about time, I said that in my opinion, time doesn't exist in eternity; it exists only in mortality. Here is a fictitious example that illustrates this.
ReplyDeleteSuppose that we're spirits in the pre-earth life and that we're gathered in a large room. We've been given our assignments in mortality, and we've been told that we're like actors on a stage. We are to go down to earth and role-play our assignments. In doing this, we'll get a body, have the experiences of mortality, and contribute to our society. Then we'll return and report, so to speak.
So, we're gathered together prior to our departure, and we're comparing notes. "Who will you be?" "I'll be a pig farmer in the 1500s in Europe." "I'll be a Roman soldier at the time of Christ, although I'll probably not see him due to being stationed in Italy." "I'll be the Queen of England". "I'll be a German soldier on the front lines of WW1." "I'll be a woman scientist."
Wow, that's a lot of variety and time periods. We're all here as spirit children, but we'll be on earth at different times and in many different roles.
So, to earth we go. Eventually the last spirit of our group has completed his/her assignment and has returned to the spirit world. We are again meeting in a large room to rehash our experiences.
"How did it go? What was it like to be a pig farmer?" "It was pretty smelly and dirty, but since it was all I knew, it was normal to me." "How about your service as a Roman soldier?" "I fought in three wars and was killed in action." "Well, Queen, what did you do for your country?" "I brought in arts and culture." "And, what was WW1 like?" "I don't really know, I was killed in the trenches early in the war." "I'm impressed that you found a cure for cancer." "Yes, that was exciting and opened the door to a life of achievement."
In looking back, this is how I see it. We were all spirits in Heaven with our Father in Heaven. We came to mortality at different times, but once we leave mortality, we will return to being spirits, and later resurrected souls. We lived in mortality at different periods of time, but once we leave mortality, we'll be back in Heaven in an eternal relationship with each other and with God. The time-periods we experience in mortality are unique with mortality. In Heaven, we'll live for eons and eons without growing old, without changing, without getting sick.